I am just looking at the analysis that the ARC released, and there is a lot of information in that data. All I wanted to get opinions of people on here. One person stated if it is 1006 or 1 then it doesn't matter, because 1 is already too many. That is that person's opinion, which is valid and I am sure that person feels very strongly about it. I was not trying to start a fight, nor will I say that someone is right or wrong on this thread. I just been finding the data interesting. And wanted to get people's opinion when it comes to the data beyond the 1006 number that is getting a lot of patient opinions.
Richard Oliver
JoinedPosts by Richard Oliver
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161
ARC Analysis Summary of Case Files
by Richard Oliver ini have been doing research on the arc as some people on here have suggested.
i find it interesting on the case file analysis some of the findings.
it looks like queensland and new south wales had the biggest problems with this.
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161
ARC Analysis Summary of Case Files
by Richard Oliver ini have been doing research on the arc as some people on here have suggested.
i find it interesting on the case file analysis some of the findings.
it looks like queensland and new south wales had the biggest problems with this.
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Richard Oliver
Cobweb. I never said that. I said that is where I agree with most members on here that Watchtower should not have reappointed those men. I may disagree with other factors but saying that is one point that I agree with many of you.
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161
ARC Analysis Summary of Case Files
by Richard Oliver ini have been doing research on the arc as some people on here have suggested.
i find it interesting on the case file analysis some of the findings.
it looks like queensland and new south wales had the biggest problems with this.
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Richard Oliver
Wow Outlaw. I was hoping to have a rational conversation about this. I was hoping not to respond to anything and just get people's feedback on my question. But right out of the gate you attack.
But outlaw, I would love to get your actual opinion on this data. Does the numbers in the different categories not matter? Does all that matter is the 1006 number? I am just trying to get people's opinions. If you feel that the only number is the 1006 it is certainly a valid point but it requires a discussion and not just attacking right away.
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161
ARC Analysis Summary of Case Files
by Richard Oliver ini have been doing research on the arc as some people on here have suggested.
i find it interesting on the case file analysis some of the findings.
it looks like queensland and new south wales had the biggest problems with this.
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Richard Oliver
My point is to get people's opinion of not just the 1006 number but how the ARC staff broke down those numbers into different categories. Obviously, the ARC staff felt that the person's status was important in determining culpability of the organization in these terrible acts.
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161
ARC Analysis Summary of Case Files
by Richard Oliver ini have been doing research on the arc as some people on here have suggested.
i find it interesting on the case file analysis some of the findings.
it looks like queensland and new south wales had the biggest problems with this.
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Richard Oliver
I have been doing research on the ARC as some people on here have suggested. I find it interesting on the Case File Analysis some of the findings.
It looks like Queensland and New South Wales had the biggest problems with this. Which makes sense because just some quick research it seems like that is the most populous parts of Australia.
But it seems like over half of the cases that the ARC is looking at happened within the family of the perpetrator. Certainly, many would contest that they could have done more after the fact to support the victim and ensure that the offender went to jail, but sadly probably very little could have been done to prevent that terrible act. And even those that were Elders or servants at the time of the abuse 54 of the 104 occurred in the family of the appointed man.
And of course, allegations at any time in Watchtower history doesn't remove how horrible it is to the victim. In Australia, only 5 cases of appointed men being accused of child abuse has occurred in the last 10 years.
199 offenders had no connection to Watchtower other than the victim was either a JW or a child of a JW. Along with 287 offenders were parishioners of the church and had no official role within the church other than being members. That leaves only 50 offenders since 1950 that were either an elder or an MS when the act occurred.
I will have to say the troubling number is that 9 of these accused offenders were reappointed as either an MS or an elder and 1 was appointed as an elder by mistake when they moved to Australia from another country. That I do have to agree with everyone on here that those men should never have been allowed back in as an elder or a servant. That is putting people in a position of trust that should not be. I don't know if those 9 men did anything to children, but they did something not responsible that allowed themselves to even allow the accusation to occur.
I know there has been a lot of talk about the 1006 number. But I think if you break it down like the commission did, it is of course terrible but you see some actual data behind those numbers. I wanted to get peoples thoughts on that.
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Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Outlaw how about you stop being a bastard and name calling people and be a freaking adult. Buy group. You won't hear from me again. And I am sure plenty of people will be ecstatic by that and good for them. I don't care anymore. Do whatever the hell you want and want to believe.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
The point of my posting this thread and many people have recognized it. It was to highlight that as a society we need to focus on things that are verifiably true and things that masquerade as fact even though they are opinion or feelings. Again I have stated this before, I never intended to bring up me being gay until someone questioned if I truly had a problem with Watchtower teaching. And this portion about a high control organization started because you used an analogy of two people in an abusive relationship. I didn't accept your claim that it is a high control organization and it just spun into this place.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Honestly i am not going to describe my feelings on this in this forum because all it would do is start an argument. I am not intending to start an argument and a debate on Watchtower as being a high control organization.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Again orphan crow. I never contended that some people cannot say that Watchtower is a high control organization. I just said it is not a verifiable fact. And all it would lead to is an argument. That is not my intention to lead to an argument. You just feel that if you say that they are one then every reasonable person should view it too. Unless it is a generally accepted fact by either the general public or by experts in the field then it is just an opinion. You want no one to disagree with you but you feel that you can disagree with anyone you want to. Again I never said that you don't feel that they are. It is clear that you feel that way. But it is not a generally accepted fact.
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130
Not a sympathizer
by Richard Oliver ini think everyone here is under the impression that i am a watchtower sympathizer, i am not.
i just like facts and when people say things, which are their opinions but that facts point out as not being true, than that is when i get so motivated to make a comment.
i have read posts here, listened to six screens and read jwsurvey and seen things that people say, which are opinion, but pass them off as fact.. there are legitimate things that people on here and former jws have concerns over without manipulating what is said or trying to pass off opinion as a fact.
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Richard Oliver
Finkeinstein:
My point is that it is not a verifiable fact. It is an opinion based on people's perception and experiences. Again I repeatedly said that it does not take away how people feel. But how people feel and what their opinion is, does not mean it is a fact. It is a fact for them but doesn't mean it is a fact for anyone.
Also I now that people have committed suicide. I have suffered from deep clinical depression in the past and at times at present. And, again this is my opinion, it is not right to claim that a suicide is caused by one factor. Suicide is a horrible event that affects not just the one that loses their life but also their family and friends who rarely ever recover from that lost. I have known gay friends to have attempted to commit suicide and I have even contemplated it at on a few occasions. At times I contemplated it because I felt like a failure, at other times due to my sexuality and still at other times due to other struggles I was facing at that exact moment. And there is a New Zealand psychologist on this site, and I don't know him personally but I am sure he can attest that in his experience and in his studies that he has found that suicide or attempts of suicide is caused by a number of factors in a persons life. Please don't try and say that people commit suicide for the exclusive reason that they are either gay or a witness. There are a number of factors that play into that kind of dispair.